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  1. #1
    Active Member Alex Froot's Avatar

    having a very hard time catching the trend !!!

    EURUSD: my trend lines drawn in 5m charts keep failing on me, I'm losing confidence in myself.
    Last edited by Alex Froot; 09-23-2015 at 12:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Legendry Member Michael Hodges's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Froot View Post
    EURUSD: my trend lines drawn in 5m charts keep failing on me, I'm losing confidence in myself.
    don't lose confidence, 5 minute chart trends are weak to start with, maybe move up to a 30 minute or 1 hour time frame? Also, are you using any other indicators? support? resistance?

    send me a pic of your chart and where your signals are, I'll take a look at it, see what I can come up with....

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  4. #3
    Legendry Member Okane's Avatar
    Well you should lose confidence in drawing trendlines on a 5min chart :P.
    Draw them on higher timeframes as Michael suggested and I'm sure you will regain your confidence.
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  6. #4
    Veteran Member Ronnel's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Froot View Post
    EURUSD: my trend lines drawn in 5m charts keep failing on me, I'm losing confidence in myself.
    Don't lose confidence Alex. Before I was in the same boat too but with practice and lots of time plotting trendlines and S/R, you'll start to see the trend. To best show you how I plot trendlines, here are some pictures that may help. Remember that people/traders have their own way of plotting lines so this is not absolute or is not set in stone.

    For me I like to trade M30 and H1 but I use M15 as my main chart. I do refer to M5 and sometime M1 just to get in the trade a lot quicker but I use M15 mainly. Why M15??? For me M15 is just easy for my strategy because I only have to count plus 2 candles for M30 expiry and plus 4 candles for H1 expiry. Based on my small experience, M5 usually bounces around 6 to 8 candles (depends on the width of my trendlines...) so if I'm using M5 for entry, I enter a trade near the top or near the bottom of my trendlines with a target of 6 to 12 future candles but depending on the width of my trendline. I also plot smaller or quick S/R lines based on the last few candles peaks and bottoms because there is a tendency for the candles to turn at these S/R areas (somewhat acts like Fibonacci...). My chart setup for live trading is different than these charts but I removed most of my other indies for you to have a better view. My suggestion is for you to plot trendlines and Support and Resistance lines, then incorporate them with your indies. Usually the indies will give you a better view of the trend and will also give you clues on what the candles are doing. Remember that your S/R lines are lines where the candles may probably turn so watch them closely. Also check if your indies are at overbought or oversold when the candles are at S/R.

    Please don't give up, remember I was also in the same boat but with practice you'll soon see the trend. You can also use trend following indies like Heikin Ashi, etc. if you like. I use trend following indies a lot and I can say that with my trendlines, S/R combined, I often get my trades ITM now. It took a while for me to learn this but now I'm slowly seeing progress. Hope this helps and I hope you'll soon learn how to see the trend.


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    Last edited by Ronnel; 09-23-2015 at 07:36 PM.

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  8. #5
    Moderator Kolyo's Avatar
    Nice charts Ronnel and well explained. I hope they will help Alex to see some basic trend charting principles.
    "The goal of a successful trader is to make the best trades. Money is secondary." - Alexander Elder

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  10. #6
    Veteran Member Ronnel's Avatar
    Part 2:

    Though I also believe that smaller TF chart is more noisy compared to higher TF charts, but remember that smaller TF is where "Pure Price Action" happens and the data on the higher TF charts all comes from M1. Why I'm showing you this is because I was trained by my mentor to use M1 to predict higher TF expiry when I was a newbie but after that I shifted to higher TF charts because it just makes analysis more easier. I can say that I can calculate with fair accuracy up to H2 expiry using M1. Sounds crazy but it can be done. Another reason why I'm showing you this is because it's not the candles noise because if you remove the time, then they all look similar and they all look noisy... The reason why my mentor taught me this is for me to learn how to draw trendlines and S/R lines, to learn how to read candlesticks and to learn what the indies are trying to show me using different TF charts and get fair results. I learned that there are certain ways how to plot trendlines. Do you want to see the "now trend" or do you want to see the "general trend"??? For me I mix the infos I get from my big and small trendlines and make an overall analysis. For me, doing analysis using smaller TF is more difficult than using larger TF charts but the real trick is how you see and plot the lines. This is a skill that you have to learn by yourself. Also remember that counting the candles from it's present location to your target destination will give you a rough estimate for your target expiry.

    Sorry I can't advice you to just use higher TF charts to do proper trenlines plotting because you can use any TF chart but if your way of plotting is not proper, then it really doesn't matter what chart you are using. Using higher TF is a lot easier but again, all will depend on the accuracy of how you plot your trendlines. Learn the skill and you'll be OK.

    Here is an example on how my mentor made me analyze M1 chart to plot H2 expiry. Notice the width or my trendlines and notice that I've zoomed out the candles to get a better view... Also notice the pictures above, look at the width of my trendlines when I'm plotting on a higher TF chart.

    Again this is not set in stone but I hope this helps.


    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #7
    Active Member Alex Froot's Avatar
    thanks everyone, this trend is your friend strategy is not as easy as it looks. here are some attempts at plotting some trend lines on 5m charts








    i don't quite understand the concept of switching between time frames and making trades based on that. are the trend lines the exact same across all timeframes. i am also using an MACD to spot divergence and the Fibonacci tool.

  13. #8
    Veteran Member Ronnel's Avatar
    I took the liberty to manipulate your 1st picture and this is how I do it. Sorry I have to erase the grid lines because it messes up my vision on the candles. Your trendline looks ok but my suggestion is to get rid of the grid so you can really focus on the candles unless your eyes are ok with the grid. Sometimes those little added lines and extra indies can really mess up with your judgement...

    Going back to your picture, the candle broke out your trendline and it becomes tougher to analyze where the candles may go next, here is where an oscillator and S/R lines will come in handy. Another thing to remember is that we can plot as many lines as we want but the candles will go where they want to go and this is where candlestick analysis will really serve you well because they show signs of probable future direction, signs of strength or exhaustion too. The candles behind also shows probable future direction BUT candles on the right are absolute and all we can do is to follow or predict where the present candle may go next. Fibonacci does work
    but plotting Fib is also a skill to be learned. For me I also use Fib but I always remove it once I got what I want from it because it too messes up my view on the candles.


    As you study and as you gain more experience, your skills will get better and you'll start seeing the trend more easily. Please give it time. Again, trendlines are good but many traders put more focus on the left than the right. The right side is where the action is


    i don't quite understand the concept of switching between time frames and making trades based on that. are the trend lines the exact same across all timeframes. i am also using an MACD to spot divergence and the Fibonacci tool.
    I jump to one TF to another because I want to get the most or enter a trade at the earliest possible position. For example my target is H1, I use H1 to get a general view but I use M5 or M15 to enter the trade because smaller TF are more sensitive. As I've mentioned that M1 may look noisy but it is where the action starts first. I want my entry to be in time and not to be late. I still can use H1 for H1 expiry but based on my experience, often using smaller TF to target larger TF expiry often lands me ITM.

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    Last edited by Ronnel; 09-24-2015 at 02:21 AM.

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  15. #9
    Active Member Alex Froot's Avatar
    thank you so much Ronnel, so next time im looking to enter a trade i should draw my trend lines on a H1 chart and refer back to M5 for the entry!. there truly is so much to learn in this game, yes i still don't quite understand the Fibonacci tool i am confused as to which direction to plot it.







    i plotted the trend line on a 30M but used 1M to watch the signal develop. am i on track here.
    Last edited by Alex Froot; 09-24-2015 at 09:51 AM.

  16. #10
    Veteran Member Ronnel's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Froot View Post
    thank you so much Ronnel, so next time im looking to enter a trade i should draw my trend lines on a H1 chart and refer back to M5 for the entry!. there truly is so much to learn in this game, yes i still don't quite understand the Fibonacci tool i am confused as to which direction to plot it.







    i plotted the trend line on a 30M but used 1M to watch the signal develop. am i on track here.

    This is hard to answer because different traders follow their own style and nothing is written in stone. Some use H1 for H1. Some use M5 for H1, Some use M15 for H1, etc. plus traders have their own ways of plotting S/R and trendlines too. Some plot their trendlines to see the whole/general view and some plot trendlines very tightly and very close to the right side of the chart. Using the whole or wide trendline view is great if you are waiting for the candles to reach your main S/R lines but the tight trendlined close to the right side of the chart is good for following the "now trend" and is basically used if you like to ride the waves or the trend. I'm sure that you know that aiming for the candles to reach S/R lines is mainly for reversals and riding the waves is entering a trade going with the direction of the present trend. Many traders prefer to enter a trade where the candles are at overbought or at oversold areas but some likes to enter trades at 50% of their Stochastic, RSI, CCI, etc. and just go with the trend. Both style have their pros and cons but combining them together will cause your trading style to be dynamic and you can aim for a reversal or just ride the waves.

    Same with plotting S/R, some plot their lines on the body of the candles, some plot it on the wicks, many plot their S/R on higher TF and some who are like me who likes potting S/R very close to the candles and just do adjustments as the candles move forward. Same with tendlines, some plot it on the tip of the wicks and some on the body of the candles. For me there are times that I plot my trendlines on my indicators like along the lines of the Bollinger Bands or along the lines or peaks of Ichimoku's Chikou Span and Cloud. I'm starting to sound geeky but this is to show you that there is a wide variety on how a trader can plot their lines and as long as the trader knows what he is doing, all's ok.

    Same with Fibonacci, Some plot it on the tip of the candles and some plot it on their S/R... I too didn't study much about Fibonacci before but since I'm a heavy Ichimoku user (it's indies acts very similar to Fib), the learning and transition to Fib was very easy for me. Just read books or watch YouTube tutorials about Fib and you'll get it soon

    About your strategy on entry, yes you can draw your trendlines on H1 and enter using M5 but you can also use M15 or M30 to do your plotting and enter on M5, M15, M30 and even on H1. For me I mainly use M15 to target M30 and H1 because I watch several currency pairs and just too lazy to look at M5. Don't get me wrong because I still look at M5 if I have the chance but not when the alarms are blowing off all at the same time. I'm just sharing with you my trading style and it may not work well for you so best to find what's right for your trading style that also matches your personality. Another advice is to focus on 1 or 2 currency pair until you get fair ITMs then move on to more pairs if you like the "rush". Another suggestion is that you draw the upper and lower trendlines so that you can use it for bouncing the candles inside. This will also come in handy when you are counting candles from destination to target.

    My apologies for my long and wide reply. I'm doing this because I want you and other newbies to learn quickly so that all of us can benefit from trading ASAP. Study more and please share with us your learning progress. More power to you!

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