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  1. #1
    Junior Member

    Ways that BO brokers manipulate newcomers !!!

    his post is not by me.
    Source

    "Hi guys,

    As You might have noticed I recently joined this forum. The reason for this topic is to inform everyone about how You can be manipulated by BO brokers.
    To introduce myself I'm Peter - I'm from Poland and I worked in a BO broker.

    First things first I will point out some facts about most of the brokers (some of You might already know this):
    1. Of course trading binary options is challenging the broker, so You loose money goes to them, You win of course You're happy and get 50-102% payout.
    2. Anyone who calls You uses a fake alias (mine was Peter Spencer), along with it - the company address is a fake for tax purposes (Cyprus, Bahamas, Monaco, Lichtenstein, Luxemburg and so on).
    3. Training received from Account Managers is overall honest but there is a second bottom in it that many people just loose money (i will explain it later).

    Alright, let's get to it.

    The Story and The Structure
    Basically it was easy to get the job. Perfect English, business analyst experience with part time forex. First department that I worked in is the Conversion. Everyone starts there.
    Conversion department is basically where we convince the customers to make first deposit. Mostly the conversation is a hidden way to determine if You are a milking cow, trader (risk!) or just a normal person trying things out.
    Conversation questions go like this:

    - Do You have any experience?
    If Yes - You will most probably get a more experienced person later on
    If No - then You might end up in an Upgrade department, if You are a milking cow or left alone for some time landing in a dead zone of one of the Account Managers portfolio

    - What do You do for living?
    If Your answer is that You make quite a lot of money, You will end up in an Upgrade dept. If You have normal or low earnings their interest about You will be on low level

    - How much would You like to earn?
    Basically we didn't care about the answer, but the more ridiculous it was, the better it was for us to bring You down to the ground and make some trust building explanation like "We don't like lying to our customers, but with a minimum deposit You can make around 50$ a week"

    After like 2 months I was manipulating people so good that I got a promotion. I went to the Retention dept. - sometimes they put You to Upgrade if You basically have epic bullshitting skills.
    Let's talk about Upgrade first.

    If by any chance, You get a second call withing very little time from upgrade, You are considered a potential milking cow and with a hint of possible manipulation and hype. I've seen people without any experience depositing 20,000$ to their accounts. It was a smashing experience, on how people actually trust You over the phone, we even did over the phone deposits where mostly Americans gave us their CC details. And guess what, there is no security as they don't care. If we wanted to, we could keep those credit card details for fraud purpose. Though I never heard about any co-workers doing that.
    Anyway, back to Upgrade.
    Basically they pump You up with promises, that with a minimum deposit and a Bronze/Basic/Minimum account You will be wasting Your time. That You need to have at least 1000$ account to have enough money to afford some loosing trades and after it regain back money with profits.
    At this stage Upgrade rep knows how much You can afford but doesn't tell You how much to deposit. Manipulative moment is "How much more would you like to deposit?" or "How much You can afford to deposit?" or even the bold one "If You can't afford to deposit 1000$ then please don't waste my fucking time!"

    Oh did I mention, that most of the active and successful manipulators watched boiler room like thousand times?

    But going back to the story.
    Retention department. This is where all good analysts, manipulators, trust builders, salesman all-in-one end up with 1,5-3% commission as a bonus for every redeposit a customer makes. That's where I was. My strategy was unique and disliked in the company. I told my customers the truth like "You can loose it all in one day" or "You shouldn't deposit too much, as it will have big psychological effect on You" and my favorite "Yes, I'm married"
    Basically thats why I ended up trading and quitting this godforsaken shitty manipulative business model. Because in Retention everything is allowed.
    We bonded with customers, trained them, asked them about the private stuff like kids, wives or husbands and the person was depositing, depositing, depositing. All in the name of learning and trying out new strategies.
    And that's the whole point why I made this post. Strategies, to point out the list of most dangerous indicators for newcomers which challenge You psychologically and intellectually.

    In of the topics I mentioned PSAR. This indicator has 3 levels of risk that we considered a really good indicator to fool the customer.
    First of all, it's not a lagging indicator. Second of all it changes, can repaint and screw the account in a ranging market. Third it's really dependent on other indicators, should not be traded as a standalone entry indicator at all.

    Another is the famous Fibonacchi Retracement. It has everything what it takes to challenge a trader.
    It challenges Your discipline, because it takes time to find entry points
    It challenges Your intellect, because interpretation is the key in this
    It challenges Your psychology, because when You fail at discipline and intellect the third drowning is the gambling mode that sparks inside Your head and even professionals have problems seeing when it starts.

    Third indicator is a funny one. Bollingers Bands.
    They are one of the most profitable indicators for BO brokers which train people. One of the biggest arguments used is that "When it touches the band it should come back up/down to the moving average". Well that's true it happens many times. But then the trend kicks in and your money is gone. Also very nice version of "When it crosses the moving average almost always continues on the next candle" one...big...fucking effective...bullshit.

    Last one is the strategy recommended for indicators. Basically it's a double up/triple up strategy (I use myself), it's based on convincing the customer that using good indicators that can bring You to 50%+ ITM double up/triple up will always leave Your account ITM. Also very tempting to convince for higher deposit.
    The only broker that allows optimal double up is Binary.com - You can bet from 1$ to even 4500$ (You pick the amount). While MAJORITY of brokers let You do something like 5$,10$,20$,50$,100$,500$ and done. Or even less with a countdown to enter another trade so You don't double up/triple up.

    Now, I could name all the indicators that we used, but that's pointless You guys should get the picture.

    In overall I quit it by an impulse. I got an Australian lady that deposited 200$; she got dumped just before she gave birth to her girl and was struggling financially. That's when I stopped making lot's of deposits (I was always in top 3 retention reps every month) and I just got broken, I couldn't lie and manipulate anymore. As I was raised by a single mother and what I said to her was "Withdraw the money and never think about trading Binary Options". Of course I had an argument at work and 2 months later I came with Psychiatrist papers and went sick for another 2 months. Now I have a secondhand shops and a wholesale with my wife and trading part-time.

    So to summarize, never ever answer the phone and by all means ALWAYS deposit using Your credit card online form. Withdraw by the end of the week and re-deposit every Monday. That way You stay low and leave yourself an option to make a chargeback (and believe me, banks accept all chargebacks as BO brokers are on a scam list in banking world). And why stay low? One customer made around 6500GBP in 2 days from a 200GBP deposit. We flagged him as an exploiter and sent him the 200GBP back and closed his account.

    And thats the reality on how fucked up is that business. And please forgive me for a messy post, as I decided to write it up from top of my head and try to keep it fully honest.
    Now I will just join the trading community and maybe I will help out some people - hopefully I will also improve.
    Last edited by Neuron; 11-23-2013 at 01:08 PM.

  2. #2
    Legendry Member willyw's Avatar
    HI Neuron, thanks for sharing this useful information with us here. Very much appreciated!!!!
    Last edited by willyw; 11-25-2013 at 01:08 AM.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member hchandra's Avatar
    Hi Neuron,
    Wow, what a great information,
    This looks like bucket shop operated in the past where the broker take contra position of its customers position and if the customer win a lot,
    they send special squat to take care of the customer (Remember casino scene when they took out math genius who can count card in poker).
    Wish for your success in trading

  4. #4
    Master Member Bogdan G's Avatar
    Very good information but actually it doesnt come as a surprise at all. It confirms almost all the practices I believed scam brokers use. Thanks for sharing with everyone.
    Cheers

    P.S.: Boiler Room is an excellent movie

  5. #5
    Master Member SeasaltMcFish's Avatar
    Thanks for sharing. It indeed doesn't surprise me much, but it shows how crooked these brokers can be.

    I don't know if you can name the broker, but could you share with us if they are on the review list of BOTS.com (or maybe even on the recommended list)?

  6. #6
    Solid Member Zanadu's Avatar
    I am with McFish and if you could share us the name of the broker
    it would be useful for everyone who is planning to trade with them.

    Hi Neuron,

    Thanks for sharing your experience !

    It would also be a good measure which ultimately put some pressure on the brokers
    to be more transparent and to strive for quality service. After all people are putting
    their hard earned money and if it falls on such brokers, it would be terrible thing.

    You too have witnessed the plight of the Australian lady ! How many more would be there
    with similar experience ?

  7. #7
    Administrator Martin Kay's Avatar
    @Neuron, Thank you for sharing this with us.

    This is not new for me and shouldn't be for anyone here. This is NOT just binary options this guy is talking about here, it's all around us. Forex, BO, Insurance, Vacuum Cleaners, Mortgage or Cars, everyone is selling something to make a living. Never answer the phone, never leave your details online, never open your door, and don't talk to strangers. We just can't be afraid of opportunities (or threats, just opposites). This is MORALLY wrong to make false advertize, or lure someone to buy something he/she really can't afford or doesn’t even need, but not completely illegal unfortunately. Nobody really needed an Iphone before Jobs, now everyone has one. It's not that I'm implying the innovation of binary options is even close to be mentioned at the same line with Steve Jobs, but before Binary Options no one needed Binary Options. Now we want it.

    I could get much philosophic about this, so I'll stop now. Bottom line – There is so much information out there, just waiting to be found (also lots of trash and spam!!!). Whatever it is you buy, or offered to buy, you have the right to hung up the phone or just say no. Take your time to learn, to think, to test yourself. This is a goldmine of information here, thank you Neuron for sharing and many many many thanks to Spencer for taking your time to share your irritating story with us Binary Options traders. May more like you change their skin and help us make this industry cleaner. Cheers!!!!

  8. #8
    Rookie Member
    Hi Neuron,

    This text is quite interesting I hope it is fairly explained, but I also hope that the situation is not like that in the best binary options brokers. Also it is very disturbing the situation with charge back option for the brokers. If they use that option to return the initial deposit when you have significant gain, the situation is very confusing and we should define that broker as a hundred percentage scam, because in such situation it is absolute scam to return your money when you have considerable profit. I had in the past ones such experience with a broker which didn’t allow me to withdraw my profits and I was so angry.

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    I can't share what the brokers are called (there are more than one, as often the people calling works for multiple brokers), as these people play hardball.

    The main bad guy IS in the "All Brokers" list, and is pretty well known (and big), but with a mediocre rating here on BOTS.
    There are other sub-companies, owned by the same people, but these do not appear to be in the list.

    But still, I wouldn't put to much confidence in ANY broker, as the name of the game is: Either the customer wins, or the broker does. Both CANNOT win.
    Do your own research though.

    F.ex. my broker is TopOption, and they get their people trained by the same company that trains the companies in question in my initial post.
    They get trained in extremely agressive sales and manipulation.

    Also, a Whois lookup of topoption.com (http://www.freewhois.us) states that the registrant (an investment company) is based on the British Virgin Islands, which is another red flag. It is where you place your company if you want no questions asked.
    The diplomat Sir Edward Clay, who won plaudits for crusading against corruption in Kenya, gave his opinion to the Times in September about the British Virgin Islands' secrecy jurisdiction: "The money held in such places comes from all over the world and probably doesn't bear examination– which is why it doesn't get much."

    I can't say that TopOption is bad. I have no way of knowing. But still I do not trust them.

    In the field of binary options, I think a little paranoia is EXTREMELY healthy.

  10. #10
    Master Member SeasaltMcFish's Avatar
    Hmmmm.... guessing is tempting.

    Hearing about their calling aggression, I guess the name starts with a 'B'?

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